December 7

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[SGC-12] Get Your Email Marketing Set-Up For Success Right From The Start With Jennifer Burke

By Melissa Brown, MDMelissa Brown, MD


Is email marketing dead? According to my guest on this episode, if it is, it should probably be a zombie on the Walking Dead due to the many times it’s been declared dead and come back to life.

The bottom line is this: Email marketing is alive and well, stronger than ever, and here to stay. And you want to be in it to win with it.

Today’s guest, Jennifer Burke, lets me borrow her brain to tap into her brilliance about all things email marketing. Whether you’re new and just getting started with email marketing or you’ve been at this for a while, Jennifer shared information to help you with whatever level you’re at right now.

And Jennifer didn’t just give us info about email marketing. She also dropped tons of nuggets about building a community, leveraging social media, optimizing your lead magnet and so much more.

Get your coffee ready along with your notebook and pen. You’ll wanna take notes on this one!

Don’t Miss Inside This Episode:

  • The best way to build a relationship with your followers (hint: it doesn’t involve crazy dancing and pointing on TikTok!)
  • Statistics about the effectiveness of email marketing vs. social media for growing your business and sales. This will shock you!
  • How to leverage social media and why you want to move people off the social platforms and onto your email list.
  • The best type of lead magnet to create, how to create one quickly, and why waiting until you’ve got it perfect is a big mistake.
  • A big ‘No-No’ that many people commit after networking events. Don’t do this.
  • Why ‘one size fits all’ doesn’t apply when you’re deciding on an email service provider (ESP).
  • At least 5 different strategies you can easily implement to grow your email list starting today.
  • What are ‘essential emails’ and when is the best time to send these?
  • Why your social media ‘link in bio’ call-to-action should be redirecting visitors back to your website, not some software ‘tree’ with a list of links.

Links and products mentioned in today’s episode:

Active Campaign email service provider –Jennifer and Melissa both use.

Jennifer’s free Email Set-Up for Success Guide. This is Jennifer’s most successful freebie opt-in that she talks about in the interview.

Jennifer’s free Fix Your Freebie guideJennifer walks you through how to improve your lead magnet.

The Mighty Easy Email Gifts Workbook – No more procrasti-planning for you!

Exclusively for all the listeners of the She’s Got Content podcast; Jennifer created a super special discount coupon = YES17 just for you. [Thank you so much, Jennifer!]

Instead of the $27 regular price, you’ll pay only $10 for this workbook which will walk you through how to get your first [or next] email list-building freebie done in record time. Not just any old freebie. Jennifer shows you how to pick the best idea to attract your most aligned ideal clients to your new freebie. And you can use this workbook over and over. Get your copy now.

*************

Head to IG and continue the email marketing conversation over at Instagram : @drmelissabrown

About Jennifer Burke

Jennifer Burke is a marketing geek and darn proud of it!

Jennifer is there for you–the busy solopreneur, coach, author, or creator who stumbles on marketing technology. Jennifer has all the deets about email services, landing pages, and managing social media. She explores the tools and really digs into them to unpack the good, the bad–the pros and cons– inside those tools, so you don’t have to; you merely borrow Jennifer’s brain!

Jennifer loves coaching her clients to promote their businesses with confidence.

She’s also a geek about all things sports, wine, photos, and grilling! Ask Jennifer about her favorite wine app.

Jennifer’s Website

Mighty Marketing Mojo

Connect With Jennifer on Social

Facebook: Mighty Marketing Mojo

Instagram: @mightymarketingmojo

About Your Host

Melissa Brown, MD – Coach, Author, Speaker, Teacher, and Podcast Host.

After leaving medical practice in 2009, Melissa discovered the online world and never looked back! After coach certification, she began a healthy lifestyle coaching practice online and quickly fell in love with blogging, writing, and content marketing.

Melissa believes that coaches have the power to change the world. Unfortunately, too many coaches get discouraged by the amount of content they need to create for marketing their business and this can lead to overwhelm and giving up on their dreams. There’s such a ripple effect when a dream dies, so Melissa is on a mission to help coaches and solopreneurs overcome the overwhelm when it comes to content creation so they keep those dreams alive.

Your content can impact massive amounts of people and positively change the world. You’ve got content in there inside you; let’s get it out into the world.

Check out these social media sites:

She’s Got Content Facebook group:

Facebook

Twitter

Instagram

Get your FREE Never Run Out of Content Ideas Tool Kit/Workbook

Thanks for listening!

Thanks so much for listening to this podcast. It means the world to me to have you here on this journey! If you got value from this episode, please share it on social media, and recommend it to your business besties.

Please leave feedback or questions about this episode in the comment section below.

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Transcript
Melissa Brown:

Hello, Content Creators.

Melissa Brown:

Today on the She's Got Content podcast, we're talking about setting up your email

Melissa Brown:

marketing for success, no matter if you're just starting out, or maybe you've been

Melissa Brown:

at this a while and you're not getting the traction you had hoped for by now.

Melissa Brown:

Today's super smart guest is my friend, Jennifer Burke.

Melissa Brown:

Jennifer is a true marketing geek who doesn't mind digging into all things tech

Melissa Brown:

and tools when it comes to marketing.

Melissa Brown:

That way, when you're in that tech ditch and you can't dig yourself out, Jennifer

Melissa Brown:

invites you to borrow her geeky brain and she'll shovel you right out of that ditch.

Melissa Brown:

You can find her home on the web at mightymarketingmojo.com.

Melissa Brown:

Today's episode with Jennifer is a little longer than I usually produce.

Melissa Brown:

That's okay, Content Creators, since Jennifer spilled so many

Melissa Brown:

nuggets in today's episode, and I just couldn't cut any of it out.

Melissa Brown:

So get your notebook ready to take notes and let's go ahead and dive in.

Melissa Brown:

Welcome, Jennifer to the She's Got Content podcast!

Jennifer Burke:

Hey Melissa, I am so excited to be here, finally!

Melissa Brown:

Finally!

Melissa Brown:

This has been at least what, two years that we've been talking about doing this?

Jennifer Burke:

Yes.

Jennifer Burke:

I went and I found the calendar invite from you.

Jennifer Burke:

It was almost exactly two years, and I just gotta say kudos to you for both

Jennifer Burke:

perseverance and sticking with an idea, but also being okay with, hey, something

Jennifer Burke:

in terms of content or marketing wasn't the right fit at a particular time.

Jennifer Burke:

You put the idea in your now next later file, and now you've come

Jennifer Burke:

back to it and that's so exciting.

Melissa Brown:

Thank you.

Melissa Brown:

Yes.

Melissa Brown:

The timing just came together.

Melissa Brown:

I knew I wanted to do this and now I can't say it's all history, but it's on its way.

Jennifer Burke:

And she has content now.

Melissa Brown:

She's got content

Melissa Brown:

There are so many things I could borrow your brain to talk about

Melissa Brown:

today, but I think, I love hearing you talk about email marketing.

Jennifer Burke:

Awesome.

Melissa Brown:

Yeah.

Melissa Brown:

Let's talk about email marketing.

Melissa Brown:

And I know you you've got a lot of ideas about how to set it up right

Melissa Brown:

from the beginning to be successful.

Jennifer Burke:

I do.

Jennifer Burke:

And Thanks Melissa.

Jennifer Burke:

I love chatting with you all the time and maybe I'm such a

Jennifer Burke:

big convert to email marketing.

Jennifer Burke:

I mean, I love content marketing of all kinds.

Jennifer Burke:

I think it's important for our blogs and for video, but I've really seen the power

Jennifer Burke:

embody in terms of email being an asset.

Jennifer Burke:

It's something that we own and can control, but it's also, it's a

Jennifer Burke:

conversation and we can be us and have our personalities and share and educate

Jennifer Burke:

and do all of those good things to help build a business through email.

Jennifer Burke:

And I think if anything, the last few years has shown us that whatever

Jennifer Burke:

type of business you are online coaching, solopreneur, brick and

Jennifer Burke:

mortar, maybe you're my friend, the yoga instructor who is glad she had

Jennifer Burke:

some kind of yoga student's email list when she couldn't teach in person.

Jennifer Burke:

But she was able to start sending out recordings and asking people if they

Jennifer Burke:

wanted to buy, and if she hadn't had that email list, where would she have been?

Melissa Brown:

That is so true.

Melissa Brown:

You said, build your business, but you're building your business based

Melissa Brown:

on building a relationship with the people that are on that list, and

Jennifer Burke:

Absolutely.

Melissa Brown:

That is the best way to be able to build that relationship,

Melissa Brown:

I think is with email marketing.

Melissa Brown:

I agree with you.

Jennifer Burke:

I'll even say that I've tried to retrain myself in my head that

Jennifer Burke:

I talk a lot about my pals in email.

Jennifer Burke:

They're my mighty pals that I talk about my email community

Jennifer Burke:

because it isn't just a list.

Jennifer Burke:

They're not numbers.

Jennifer Burke:

They're people.

Jennifer Burke:

There's a real person at the end of every email that I send, and I know

Jennifer Burke:

that when I get replies back, and I know that when some people click more often

Jennifer Burke:

and read everything and reply to every, what you just said, the content is there

Jennifer Burke:

to nurture and build a relationship.

Melissa Brown:

And that really speaks to really well, let me back up a minute.

Melissa Brown:

You go on the internet and you're gonna see a ton of the gurus

Melissa Brown:

saying, email marketing is dead.

Melissa Brown:

Oh, I know.

Melissa Brown:

Be still my heart.

Jennifer Burke:

Oh.

Jennifer Burke:

Oh, there's a deck.

Jennifer Burke:

Let me pull the lights out.

Jennifer Burke:

Okay.

Melissa Brown:

So when known marketers, when they say email marketing is dead,

Melissa Brown:

let's talk about that for a minute.

Melissa Brown:

What do you.

Jennifer Burke:

All right.

Melissa Brown:

What's your take on that?

Jennifer Burke:

Well, I'd say no, and the funny thing of course is

Jennifer Burke:

that email has been proclaimed, dead so many times, it should be a

Jennifer Burke:

zombie on the Walking Dead , because it just keeps coming back, to life.

Jennifer Burke:

There are probably certain trends and certain demographics that like other

Jennifer Burke:

forms of messaging over others, but things like, I had this written down, and it was

Jennifer Burke:

in a blog, posted in an ebook somewhere that there's like three times more email

Jennifer Burke:

accounts in the world than there are Facebook and Twitter accounts, combined.

Jennifer Burke:

That you are six times more likely to get a click through from an

Jennifer Burke:

email than you are from a tweet.

Jennifer Burke:

That literally, there's billions of email users worldwide.

Jennifer Burke:

And that a lot of people in studies even say, look, we want, there's one from

Jennifer Burke:

Marketing Land that says 77% of consumers want to get a marketing message via email.

Jennifer Burke:

They opted in.

Jennifer Burke:

I may not have joined Instagram, Facebook, or TikTok so that

Jennifer Burke:

you can market something to me.

Jennifer Burke:

But yes, I gave Wayfair and readers and content sellers and all kinds of other

Jennifer Burke:

places, my email address specifically, so they could send me marketing

Jennifer Burke:

related emails or content and coupons

Jennifer Burke:

. Melissa Brown: True.

Jennifer Burke:

True.

Jennifer Burke:

Like how many of you, I'm betting, Melissa, you

Jennifer Burke:

signed up and got a coupon for something in your email box today.

Melissa Brown:

Oh, multiple ones.

Melissa Brown:

And right now everybody's promoting prior to Black Friday.

Melissa Brown:

Black Friday's coming up.

Melissa Brown:

And we're already being inundated with a lot of emails, with promotions.

Jennifer Burke:

Absolutely.

Jennifer Burke:

And there's gonna be January 1st emails and your gym is gonna promote

Jennifer Burke:

and try and get you back into the gym for New Year's resolutions.

Jennifer Burke:

And somebody else is gonna promote a President's Day sale.

Jennifer Burke:

And I talked in my membership group today, I'm like, Hey, you go out and be the first

Jennifer Burke:

one to have an Arbor Day sale, cuz you're not gonna have a lot of competition.

Jennifer Burke:

But yes, everybody is going to do that.

Jennifer Burke:

And if it wasn't working, do you think big corporations would still

Jennifer Burke:

be putting money behind email?

Jennifer Burke:

No.

Melissa Brown:

No, no.

Jennifer Burke:

And like we said, like my friend, the yoga instructor,

Jennifer Burke:

like your local restaurants have shown it's beneficial to have that email,

Jennifer Burke:

even if you're not sending something every day like the people who sell

Jennifer Burke:

me sheets and furniture and glasses.

Melissa Brown:

And when you were talking before about the value of

Melissa Brown:

a tweet or a Facebook post, what we all have to remember is we don't

Melissa Brown:

know from day to day whether those platforms will still be around.

Jennifer Burke:

Holy flames of social media shifting sand!

Jennifer Burke:

They're not just shifting sands, they're shifting sands that are on fire right now.

Jennifer Burke:

And I feel like we've seen this and we've gone through cycles and algorithms

Jennifer Burke:

change and what gets favored changes.

Jennifer Burke:

I feel like things have accelerated more, and while there are some opportunities

Jennifer Burke:

for us there, I'm gonna be probably not the only person who's gonna yell at you

Jennifer Burke:

to say, if you're gonna be on social media, you better well make use of that

Jennifer Burke:

traffic to get them back onto your list.

Melissa Brown:

Amen.

Melissa Brown:

Amen.

Melissa Brown:

Yes.

Jennifer Burke:

Because I was in a call just this morning and we were

Jennifer Burke:

talking about, there were two coaches, two small business owners who'd lost

Jennifer Burke:

Facebook accounts in the past week.

Jennifer Burke:

One got theirs back, one didn't.

Jennifer Burke:

I'm seeing it probably happen, actually more than that.

Jennifer Burke:

I've seen it in dozens of times a day, almost in large groups on

Jennifer Burke:

social media going, I got hacked.

Jennifer Burke:

Or we did something and we have no idea what, because there's no real

Jennifer Burke:

person back there, looking at these sorts of things and taking our help

Jennifer Burke:

unless you've given them money for ads.

Jennifer Burke:

And they're like, what do we do?

Jennifer Burke:

When do we get it back?

Jennifer Burke:

And the answer is, chances are you're not.

Melissa Brown:

When you mention this week, I also heard this week from someone

Melissa Brown:

who is in a group with someone who's on a board or something for Facebook, and

Melissa Brown:

the word trickled down that if you are posting anything, promoting your business

Melissa Brown:

on your Facebook personal profile, you are subject to be dismissed from

Melissa Brown:

Facebook immediately without notice.

Melissa Brown:

Permanently.

Jennifer Burke:

Yeah.

Jennifer Burke:

It's always been against the terms of service, for Facebook.

Melissa Brown:

They're now, they're really cracking down.

Jennifer Burke:

I've told people that for years.

Jennifer Burke:

I've seen instances of that happening for years.

Jennifer Burke:

And people didn't believe me when I said, yes, it can happen.

Jennifer Burke:

Yes, I've seen it happen and at the same time, it's like Facebook's talking out

Jennifer Burke:

of the other side of their mouth and they're like, oh, go turn your personal

Jennifer Burke:

profile into a professional profile, so now you can talk about business more.

Jennifer Burke:

And then I'm seeing people going, oh my God, yeah, and then it

Jennifer Burke:

killed my reach and it did this.

Jennifer Burke:

And all of that can or can't help.

Jennifer Burke:

But if you don't have those people and your followers, you don't own your

Jennifer Burke:

followers, you don't own your likes.

Jennifer Burke:

And this is true whether we're talking Facebook, Twitter,

Jennifer Burke:

Instagram, TikTok, YouTube.

Melissa Brown:

No matter the platform.

Jennifer Burke:

No matter the platform folks.

Jennifer Burke:

If you want to know that you are sending a message and it's going to the people

Jennifer Burke:

that you intended it to go to at the time that you chose it to go to, there's email.

Jennifer Burke:

Now, I gotta put a caveat on this, Melissa, because yes,

Jennifer Burke:

there's all kinds of things that can affect email deliverability,

Jennifer Burke:

and there's techy stuff there.

Jennifer Burke:

And Lord knows I feel like I've been fighting that with deliverability

Jennifer Burke:

issues this year and there's engagement and stuff like that.

Jennifer Burke:

But if you do it the right way and you do it ethically and you follow

Jennifer Burke:

the right rules in terms of email marketing, that's an asset that you own.

Jennifer Burke:

And, if say you had a type of business that you could sell some

Jennifer Burke:

of the valuation of that business, it will include your customer list.

Jennifer Burke:

Anyway, don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Jennifer Burke:

That's what we're saying.

Melissa Brown:

Right.

Melissa Brown:

But build an email basket

Melissa Brown:

. Jennifer Burke: Yes.

Melissa Brown:

There we go.

Melissa Brown:

There.

Melissa Brown:

So when you were just talking about a community, you talk about your email

Melissa Brown:

list as a community, let's talk about how does one successfully, because this

Melissa Brown:

is what we're talking about, do this successfully right from the get go.

Melissa Brown:

How does one build that community?

Melissa Brown:

What are some of the tips you can give us?

Jennifer Burke:

So I'm glad you asked and cause I feel and part of is, I

Jennifer Burke:

always talk and teach my people from experience, and I'm like, I'm gonna carry

Jennifer Burke:

you along with me and show you what I've done and what I've learned, as well as

Jennifer Burke:

what I've seen others do, successfully.

Jennifer Burke:

I have a guide and it's called the Email Setup for Success Guide, and it

Jennifer Burke:

goes through 12 steps of here's the things that if you do them, you will be

Jennifer Burke:

in a better position to be doing email marketing in a way that's gonna make

Jennifer Burke:

it successful for your business, no matter what niche you're in, what type

Jennifer Burke:

of coach, that you might be, whatever consultant or course creator you are.

Jennifer Burke:

And I actually did the math.

Jennifer Burke:

I went back and looked today that, that one particular opt-in gift, freebie,

Jennifer Burke:

aka lead magnet, has brought more than a thousand people into my community.

Melissa Brown:

Woohoo . Yeah.

Jennifer Burke:

And I'm like, yes, and so there was a lot of small business

Jennifer Burke:

owners who want help learning all of this.

Jennifer Burke:

I also, if I have to do this over again, and I'm looking at this

Jennifer Burke:

going, I need to follow my own advice because the guide could be better.

Jennifer Burke:

But things like you need to have email marketing software.

Jennifer Burke:

Hopefully all the folks we're talking to and listening today know that you cannot

Jennifer Burke:

go out and build a relationship with lots of people, not just a one to one

Jennifer Burke:

relationship, you can't do that through your Outlook and your Gmail folks, right?

Jennifer Burke:

You know that.

Melissa Brown:

No, no.

Melissa Brown:

That's number one, do not use your gmail

Jennifer Burke:

number one rule,

Melissa Brown:

yahoo, aol, any of those things.

Jennifer Burke:

No.

Jennifer Burke:

It's like, number two, there is no, you can't take your business cards from a

Jennifer Burke:

networking event or a conference and just dump them into the system either.

Melissa Brown:

Oh, this is a pet peeve of mine.

Melissa Brown:

Oh my gosh.

Melissa Brown:

Yes.

Jennifer Burke:

I know, I know.

Melissa Brown:

Preach it.

Melissa Brown:

Preach it,

Jennifer Burke:

Preach it.

Jennifer Burke:

I'm like, there's even one gentleman who's a consultant.

Jennifer Burke:

We've been in some groups together, we've attended meetings together,

Jennifer Burke:

and part of me has wanted to take him aside and go, you know, I

Jennifer Burke:

never actually gave you permission.

Jennifer Burke:

You violate.

Jennifer Burke:

I shared my business card with you.

Jennifer Burke:

I did not opt in to your list.

Jennifer Burke:

And I haven't had that gentle conversation with him.

Jennifer Burke:

But the point I used to be more strident about what email software

Jennifer Burke:

I thought people, should use.

Jennifer Burke:

And I say that having used a lot of them and have had test accounts

Jennifer Burke:

in a number of software and I've helped clients through others.

Jennifer Burke:

I think the most important thing is that, what I use for me and where

Jennifer Burke:

my business is right now may not be the best choice for somebody else.

Jennifer Burke:

I moved to Active Campaign three years ago.

Jennifer Burke:

Oh, it's coming up on four years and I love it.

Jennifer Burke:

It's what helped me take off with growth in my business, my email list, absolutely.

Melissa Brown:

I followed to change from my email service

Melissa Brown:

provider after I saw your success.

Melissa Brown:

And I said, Ooh, that Jennifer, she's a smart gal.

Melissa Brown:

So I made that move too.

Melissa Brown:

I flipped over there.

Jennifer Burke:

Thank you.

Jennifer Burke:

I've brought several people along with me over the years.

Jennifer Burke:

That said, I've also worked with clients who, based on their niche

Jennifer Burke:

and their message, there were other services that made sense for them and

Jennifer Burke:

others because of the deals they got.

Jennifer Burke:

And I'm like, look, if it's what's working for you, you don't have to change because

Jennifer Burke:

I think there's some other tools out there and maybe there's a better tool

Jennifer Burke:

that's more intuitive for your brain.

Jennifer Burke:

I know some people whose brains just work better with Convert Kit and whose

Jennifer Burke:

brains work better in Mailer Lite.

Jennifer Burke:

I don't know anybody's brain who works better in MailChimp, but I

Jennifer Burke:

get why they were literally like the biggest monkey in the room.

Jennifer Burke:

That said, I think the most importantest thing is you go in, you learn your

Jennifer Burke:

software, you learn and figure out does it have the tools in it at the plan that

Jennifer Burke:

you can afford that are gonna let you help your business grow and grow right now.

Jennifer Burke:

I felt like when I moved over to Active Campaign, I'm like, oh, I am putting on

Jennifer Burke:

my big girl old pants and I am not ready for this tool, but I know I will be.

Jennifer Burke:

If I follow the steps, this is what's going to help me

Jennifer Burke:

get to where I need to go.

Melissa Brown:

Talking about the big girl panties, a lot of people

Melissa Brown:

think, well, I'm just gonna start out with one of these freebie things.

Jennifer Burke:

Mm-hmm.

Melissa Brown:

free software, and then I'll make the move.

Melissa Brown:

But having moved once when I had automations.

Melissa Brown:

You've moved three times?

Jennifer Burke:

Yeah.

Melissa Brown:

One time is enough for me.

Jennifer Burke:

And I'm not even gonna count the one piece of software I was

Jennifer Burke:

in so long that I never actually even moved my list there or out of it.

Melissa Brown:

Oh, actually you just reminded me.

Melissa Brown:

I did do a trial with another one and talk about not having a brain.

Melissa Brown:

It just did not click with my brain.

Melissa Brown:

And I was like, I don't get this.

Melissa Brown:

I don't get why it's so popular.

Melissa Brown:

But when I made the move to Active Campaign, yes, there is a learning

Melissa Brown:

curve, but it just made so much sense.

Melissa Brown:

There's a lot of intuitiveness.

Melissa Brown:

Is that a word?

Melissa Brown:

I just made that up, if not.

Melissa Brown:

That it just worked with my brain.

Jennifer Burke:

Right.

Melissa Brown:

Let's just talk for a minute about are there certain things

Melissa Brown:

that, yes, we all know email service providers send out emails, but is there

Melissa Brown:

a list of oh, must haves, even from starting out, if it's a brand new coach

Melissa Brown:

just starting to build an email list.

Melissa Brown:

I don't know if they all have tags, but I know tags are

Melissa Brown:

really, to me, very important.

Jennifer Burke:

It's one of the biggest reasons I moved.

Jennifer Burke:

That's the one area when I write and I caveat in my guide where I lay out here's

Jennifer Burke:

the biggest and the top ones to look at.

Jennifer Burke:

And it's the one caveat that I have when I talk to people and clients who are

Jennifer Burke:

thinking about going completely free.

Jennifer Burke:

Understand the limits and understand what you get what you pay for, or in

Jennifer Burke:

this case what you're not paying for.

Jennifer Burke:

And is that limitation gonna hold you back from growing your business.

Jennifer Burke:

Things like the limitations and the non-existence of automations with

Jennifer Burke:

the totally free plan in MailChimp.

Jennifer Burke:

Making sure that you can create a multiple email follow up sequence when

Jennifer Burke:

somebody gets your free gift or buys your product or registers for your

Jennifer Burke:

webinar that they get the series of emails you want them to automatically.

Jennifer Burke:

Cuz you and I aren't gonna be sitting there sending emails at two o'clock in

Jennifer Burke:

the morning in case somebody who's on a different coast or time zone from us,

Jennifer Burke:

that's when they sign up or they find us.

Jennifer Burke:

That's the beauty of email marketing.

Jennifer Burke:

And yes, some of those free plans don't include that to the degree

Jennifer Burke:

that even a beginner needs.

Jennifer Burke:

The ability to group people so that you could say, Hey, here's all the

Jennifer Burke:

people that are interested in my email setup list, and then here's all

Jennifer Burke:

the people over here that wanted the thing when I was talking about Canva.

Jennifer Burke:

And those aren't necessarily the same people, although some of them are.

Jennifer Burke:

If you're a parenting coach, you wanna be able to group the people who

Jennifer Burke:

are parents of toddlers differently than the parents of tweens.

Jennifer Burke:

Or teens, because while you may talk about tips that help all of them,

Jennifer Burke:

chances are you're gonna have courses or products or coaching that's very

Jennifer Burke:

different for a three year old, a nine year old, and a 17 year old.

Melissa Brown:

True.

Jennifer Burke:

And if your email software doesn't easily and affordably

Jennifer Burke:

let you make those groups or segments or use tags to create them, and instead

Jennifer Burke:

it makes you count them on multiple different lists and then it counts each

Jennifer Burke:

person, you've gotta wait a minute.

Jennifer Burke:

I've got a mom and Barb over here is a mom of both a five

Jennifer Burke:

year old and a nine year old.

Jennifer Burke:

So technically she needs to be in both of those camps, but I don't wanna count Barb

Jennifer Burke:

twice against my email subscriber list.

Jennifer Burke:

So those are some of the questions that you can ask, and I think some

Jennifer Burke:

of those tools have gotten better.

Jennifer Burke:

It's where I would say, if somebody's really gonna go after

Jennifer Burke:

free, then look at Mailer Lite.

Jennifer Burke:

But be sure you're aware of the features that you are not getting and make a

Jennifer Burke:

plan so that you can make the sales necessary to cover your email costs.

Jennifer Burke:

Cause I'd almost say that if you can't afford the $15 or the $9, a month,

Jennifer Burke:

the $10 a month for the features in most of these email software,

Jennifer Burke:

Convert Kit has affordable plans, Active Campaign was cheaper when

Jennifer Burke:

I moved there than it was what the software that I left, Mailer Lite.

Jennifer Burke:

You need to be able to sell at least that much a month so that you can

Jennifer Burke:

pay for your email because it's gonna help you make more sales each month.

Melissa Brown:

Right.

Melissa Brown:

Yeah.

Melissa Brown:

If you look at some of the plans, some of the email service providers, as you get

Melissa Brown:

more subscribers and the cost goes up, that might be a turnoff to some people who

Melissa Brown:

say, oh my gosh, look how much it is per month when I have that many subscribers.

Melissa Brown:

But look at it a different way.

Melissa Brown:

You've got that many subscribers.

Melissa Brown:

You've got more opportunity to have more products that get in front of

Melissa Brown:

those people and make more sales.

Melissa Brown:

Get more clients customers.

Jennifer Burke:

Absolutely.

Jennifer Burke:

And I think that leads us to some other questions about

Jennifer Burke:

what is success in setting up?

Jennifer Burke:

You don't put off building the relationship, sending the emails,

Jennifer Burke:

sharing useful, relevant offers until you get to some X number on your list.

Jennifer Burke:

No, start writing emails when you got, I was writing emails when I had, five

Jennifer Burke:

people on my list, 30 people on my list when I knew all of them by name.

Jennifer Burke:

And I'd probably met them in person.

Jennifer Burke:

And when one of them unsubscribed, it felt like a dagger to my heart.

Jennifer Burke:

Cause I'm like, God, Marilyn, how can you leave me?

Jennifer Burke:

You know?

Jennifer Burke:

But it's okay.

Jennifer Burke:

It's not the right fit for them.

Jennifer Burke:

Maybe they'll be back.

Jennifer Burke:

The point is that there are, it's like you said, there's more people that you

Jennifer Burke:

can potentially build a relationship.

Jennifer Burke:

There's more offers that you can potentially make.

Jennifer Burke:

Don't let it scare you and don't think that you have to get to some magic number.

Jennifer Burke:

It used to be coaches are like, no, you gotta wait till you got a hundred.

Jennifer Burke:

You gotta wait till you got a thousand.

Jennifer Burke:

I'm like, hell no!!

Melissa Brown:

No, no.

Melissa Brown:

Yeah, I talked about that on another podcast episode about that being an email

Melissa Brown:

marketing mistake is waiting too long.

Melissa Brown:

Give till it hurts.

Melissa Brown:

Give till it hurts.

Melissa Brown:

No, that's a mistake.

Melissa Brown:

You can give things away, but you can make offers too.

Melissa Brown:

Don't train your people just to get everything for free from you.

Jennifer Burke:

Right.

Jennifer Burke:

And folks offers can be everything from, join this group, listen to

Jennifer Burke:

my podcast, or listen to Melissa's podcast, She's Got Content.

Jennifer Burke:

It could also be, get on a call, fill out this survey, watch this

Jennifer Burke:

video, sign up for the free webinar.

Jennifer Burke:

You're trying to take them from points where they are just getting

Jennifer Burke:

to know you to seeing you in action.

Jennifer Burke:

Hey, here's a $7 ebook.

Jennifer Burke:

Here's a $7 planner for you.

Jennifer Burke:

Because once they commit and they make the $7 or the $17 offer, then it makes

Jennifer Burke:

sense to maybe buy into, oh, wait, here's a course that's related to that..

Jennifer Burke:

It's a lot harder if you join and you're building this relationship

Jennifer Burke:

and you nurture and you give lots of free content and blogs, and then

Jennifer Burke:

you hit them with your one and only offer is this $5,000 a month program.

Jennifer Burke:

Well, that just didn't fit.

Jennifer Burke:

You weren't setting yourself up for success.

Jennifer Burke:

You weren't setting your community up for success with you.

Melissa Brown:

Yeah.

Melissa Brown:

And you're bringing up another point that, listen, if you're a brand new coach,

Melissa Brown:

you don't have an offer out there yet.

Melissa Brown:

You're kind of figuring out what's gonna be the thing to offer.

Melissa Brown:

There's nothing wrong with doing some affiliate marketing.

Melissa Brown:

And that means that you're promoting something with an affiliate link

Melissa Brown:

to the people who are on your list.

Melissa Brown:

But make sure that those products that you're recommending are vetted by you and

Jennifer Burke:

Absolutely, yes.

Melissa Brown:

Let's circle back, because I know that there are

Melissa Brown:

certain email service providers

Jennifer Burke:

Yeah, I'm sure we will.

Jennifer Burke:

We will get questions and concerns going, oh no, we're gonna violate

Jennifer Burke:

the terms of, I'm like, yes, no.

Jennifer Burke:

We can circle back to that.

Jennifer Burke:

Melissa, write down that we will come back to affiliates.

Jennifer Burke:

I did a coaching program on writing and one of my students helped me rename it.

Jennifer Burke:

Your Essential Emails, because it's like the five emails you send at the

Jennifer Burke:

very beginning of the relationship are the most essential cuz they set the

Jennifer Burke:

relationship off on the right foot.

Jennifer Burke:

They get to know you.

Jennifer Burke:

They get good valuable content.

Jennifer Burke:

You're helping them with a specific problem.

Jennifer Burke:

It's related to the reason they joined your list in the

Jennifer Burke:

first place for community.

Jennifer Burke:

And you're setting up going, Hey, here's the other things that

Jennifer Burke:

I do to help people like you.

Jennifer Burke:

Let me show you how I can help you more.

Jennifer Burke:

You're doing a disservice to your community if you don't

Jennifer Burke:

tell them how you can help them.

Jennifer Burke:

And whether that's your own calls, your workshops, your coaching, your consulting,

Jennifer Burke:

or it's the offers of somebody else that you've known and vetted for them.

Jennifer Burke:

That was the thing that was the biggest light bulb that went off in my head.

Jennifer Burke:

And the switch that flipped was that I was doing a disservice for my

Jennifer Burke:

people if I didn't email them and if I didn't present them valuable offers.

Melissa Brown:

I often say there's one person out there who needs

Melissa Brown:

to hear from you, and they're not gonna hear it from anybody but you.

Melissa Brown:

And you're doing that one person, of course, it's always

Melissa Brown:

multiplied by one person.

Melissa Brown:

Yes, many, many more.

Melissa Brown:

But just think about that one person and even give them a name.

Melissa Brown:

Call them, call her Cassandra or Bob, and think about how they're sitting there

Melissa Brown:

and needing a solution and you've got it.

Melissa Brown:

And if you're not giving it to this person, by sending out your emails,

Melissa Brown:

making these offers, then that person's sitting there just waiting for the

Melissa Brown:

answer, waiting for the solution.

Jennifer Burke:

Or they leave, they're gonna go find somebody else,

Melissa Brown:

find it somewhere else.

Jennifer Burke:

They're gonna find it somewhere else.

Melissa Brown:

So, yes.

Jennifer Burke:

So related then, since we here, I'll circle us back.

Melissa Brown:

Yeah, circle back there, Jennifer,

Jennifer Burke:

to affiliates and referral links.

Jennifer Burke:

It's been talked about in multiple groups that there's many of the

Jennifer Burke:

email service providers who are like, you cannot do affiliate marketing.

Jennifer Burke:

There's a difference between what I would call, the affiliate links that say Melissa

Jennifer Burke:

or I share in the course of an email that we write that has valuable information,

Jennifer Burke:

that has a tip, that shares a story and says, and by the way, here's the product

Jennifer Burke:

I think you can help you with blank.

Melissa Brown:

Right.

Jennifer Burke:

That's okay.

Jennifer Burke:

I've done stuff like that in, it's more than hundreds, it's probably a

Jennifer Burke:

thousand plus emails in the almost four years I've been with Active Campaign.

Jennifer Burke:

I have not run into an issue once, not ever.

Jennifer Burke:

What they're concerned about is basically the kinds of people who wind up in

Jennifer Burke:

your spam folder where it's nothing but hard hitting and promo, and they're

Jennifer Burke:

not necessarily high quality offers.

Jennifer Burke:

And you can kind of clearly tell that they're just churning and

Jennifer Burke:

burning and they'll churn and burn a list and they don't care.

Jennifer Burke:

Because if they can get three people to click on some spammy, high, whatever

Jennifer Burke:

offer, and then it paid off for them.

Jennifer Burke:

And that's not who any of these email providers want on their list because

Jennifer Burke:

it's tanking their reputation scores and their server scores and bringing

Jennifer Burke:

everybody else down around them.

Jennifer Burke:

So yes, they have to tend to put into their terms that they were

Jennifer Burke:

against affiliate marketing.

Jennifer Burke:

They're against that type.

Jennifer Burke:

They're against spam.

Jennifer Burke:

If all you ever send out is an affiliate promotion and you never tell people

Jennifer Burke:

who you are or give them a background and you're not giving them any tips

Jennifer Burke:

and you're not sharing valuable content, then yeah, then yeah, you're

Jennifer Burke:

probably gonna run into trouble and you're probably not gonna have a very

Jennifer Burke:

effective or engaged email list either.

Jennifer Burke:

But if I send out a link to one of Melissa's courses or programs

Jennifer Burke:

or her content twice a month, I'm not gonna get in trouble for that.

Jennifer Burke:

I can send out a link that probably has three affiliate links in it

Jennifer Burke:

to three different products if they make sense within the context

Jennifer Burke:

of the rest of the message.

Jennifer Burke:

And all the other emails that I send out, many people are like, that's cool.

Jennifer Burke:

Good.

Jennifer Burke:

Jennifer's cool on that.

Jennifer Burke:

Okay.

Melissa Brown:

And we also wanna say there should be a disclaimer on your email that

Melissa Brown:

says, this email contains affiliate links.

Jennifer Burke:

Absolutely.

Melissa Brown:

And something along the lines of, you're not paying anything

Melissa Brown:

more, but the person who has this product is gonna send me a little thank you

Melissa Brown:

check if you do purchase, but it doesn't cost you, the consumer, anything more.

Jennifer Burke:

Does not.

Jennifer Burke:

Follow all legal guidelines regarding affiliate and referral marketing.

Jennifer Burke:

Follow the ftc.

Jennifer Burke:

Yes.

Jennifer Burke:

There is a disclaimer in the footer of every one of my emails

Jennifer Burke:

that has that information.

Jennifer Burke:

Yes, there's other stuff that needs to be on blogs and websites.

Jennifer Burke:

I am gonna tell you I am not a legal expert and I am not playing

Jennifer Burke:

a lawyer on the internet here.

Jennifer Burke:

I'm just gonna say that I think people are more scared and scared

Jennifer Burke:

away of certain email services versus others because of affiliate.

Jennifer Burke:

And now I will say something.

Jennifer Burke:

So here's another caveat.

Jennifer Burke:

Yeah.

Jennifer Burke:

MailChimp's gonna crack down on that more.

Jennifer Burke:

Why?

Jennifer Burke:

Because they have more free accounts and free users who are going to abuse that.

Jennifer Burke:

Mailer Lite may or may not crack down on that more.

Jennifer Burke:

Again, they have a very big free program.

Jennifer Burke:

That's one of the advantages as opposed to not being on a free plan from Active

Jennifer Burke:

Campaign and they're not being a big free plan there, is that your average

Jennifer Burke:

spammer isn't gonna pay what I pay a month so that they could send crap emails.

Jennifer Burke:

So there's another reason why you may have to think twice about the free

Jennifer Burke:

plans with some of the email software.

Jennifer Burke:

I can be fired up talking about email today, Melissa.

Melissa Brown:

I know.

Melissa Brown:

And now that you're so fired up, I wanna circle into, alright,

Melissa Brown:

how are we gonna build up?

Melissa Brown:

How are we gonna get people to sign up for our list?

Melissa Brown:

Talking about starting right from the get go, being successful right

Melissa Brown:

from the get go with our email list.

Jennifer Burke:

Well, I can totally tell you don't do some of the

Jennifer Burke:

things that I've done in the past.

Jennifer Burke:

No.

Melissa Brown:

Oh, I could do that too.

Melissa Brown:

I could,

Jennifer Burke:

We could both share a list of the things that haven't worked for us.

Jennifer Burke:

Actually I've done things that technically while they worked and

Jennifer Burke:

they built me an email list in the end didn't turn out to be the right list.

Melissa Brown:

Right.

Melissa Brown:

It wasn't the right people on the list.

Jennifer Burke:

It wasn't the right people for right me.

Jennifer Burke:

They were great people, but in one case, I built that for one business and

Jennifer Burke:

they love the content, they love me, but they weren't the decision makers.

Jennifer Burke:

They weren't the buyers for that business and that consulting business.

Jennifer Burke:

So webinars worked, but didn't.

Melissa Brown:

You're talking free webinars where people will sign up.

Jennifer Burke:

Yeah, it's still a thing.

Jennifer Burke:

It's still done.

Jennifer Burke:

I think everybody's like, oh, I know.

Jennifer Burke:

I'm gonna go make an ebook and I'm gonna put my ebook

Jennifer Burke:

out and people are gonna join.

Jennifer Burke:

The first thing is that you can't just put a form up on your website and go,

Jennifer Burke:

hi, click and sign up for my newsletter.

Jennifer Burke:

Folks, that, that might have worked 20 years ago.

Jennifer Burke:

It isn't gonna work today.

Melissa Brown:

Not today.

Jennifer Burke:

So we have what's known as the gift, the enticement, the optin, the

Jennifer Burke:

incentive, the lead magnet, the freebie.

Jennifer Burke:

And I'll tell you this right now, you wanna go and you're gonna test one

Jennifer Burke:

and you're gonna get it out there and then you're gonna change it because

Jennifer Burke:

whatever you put out there the first time probably isn't the best one.

Jennifer Burke:

But that's okay cuz it's out there and you're gonna learn from it.

Jennifer Burke:

I could probably ask Melissa, how many different opt-in gifts

Jennifer Burke:

have you had over the last

Jennifer Burke:

? Melissa Brown: I have lost track.

Jennifer Burke:

There's a bunch of them that are now sitting on my hard

Jennifer Burke:

drive, cuz they're my babies.

Jennifer Burke:

I can't let them go completely, but they're not available to opt in.

Jennifer Burke:

No, I can do like the mistake I made, oh, I was so proud

Jennifer Burke:

of, I think one of the first ones I made and it was pretty, and my very

Jennifer Burke:

beginning Canva skills and a PDF and I believe it was a resource guide

Jennifer Burke:

and there were 30 plus resources.

Jennifer Burke:

Oh my God, how many pages was it?

Jennifer Burke:

It was too many pages.

Jennifer Burke:

It was too much.

Jennifer Burke:

It was just too much.

Jennifer Burke:

And that's, if anything, the irony right now is I have a freebie called

Jennifer Burke:

Fix Your Freebie where I'm trying to put into practice what I do.

Jennifer Burke:

And I'm looking at one of my most successful ones, the one that's

Jennifer Burke:

gotten me more than a thousand people over the last few years.

Jennifer Burke:

And I'm like, it's too long.

Jennifer Burke:

It's too long.

Jennifer Burke:

It made sense at the time.

Jennifer Burke:

It's helped people.

Jennifer Burke:

How can I make this better?

Melissa Brown:

People are looking for a quick fix.

Melissa Brown:

A quick win.

Melissa Brown:

They don't wanna read a 50 page or it used to be a hundred page

Melissa Brown:

was like such a valuable resource, but now nobody wants that.

Jennifer Burke:

More is not better.

Melissa Brown:

No it is not.

Melissa Brown:

They want a quick win.

Melissa Brown:

They want checklists.

Melissa Brown:

They want something that maybe even one page where they can look at that

Melissa Brown:

as they're going through the steps.

Melissa Brown:

Check 'em off and resources.

Melissa Brown:

That's what people want.

Melissa Brown:

They want quick fixes.

Jennifer Burke:

Here's the advice for anybody setting up.

Jennifer Burke:

First of all, understand that all of us have created more than one.

Jennifer Burke:

We've had ones that flopped.

Jennifer Burke:

You're gonna go out, you're gonna create one.

Jennifer Burke:

You're gonna see what resonates with your ideal people and audience.

Jennifer Burke:

And then you're gonna fix it and you're gonna tweak it, and you'll change it.

Jennifer Burke:

Do not spend weeks.

Jennifer Burke:

Or months and I've seen that happen.

Melissa Brown:

Oh, yes.

Jennifer Burke:

Putting something together and having it be gorgeous,

Jennifer Burke:

and also having it be something that somebody's looking at.

Jennifer Burke:

And I'm I don't even, I don't know what this is.

Jennifer Burke:

I'm working with a client.

Jennifer Burke:

it's beautiful, it's gorgeous, it's well laid out, but there

Jennifer Burke:

seems to be an ebook here.

Jennifer Burke:

And a journal and a planner and something else.

Jennifer Burke:

It was too much.

Jennifer Burke:

Just, it was too much.

Jennifer Burke:

Each one of those things could have helped solve one single problem.

Jennifer Burke:

And I feel like now I'm going into Hey, I have an entire workshop about that.

Jennifer Burke:

That wasn't what Melissa asked me to plug, but I do.

Jennifer Burke:

I've created a suite of products that go from the freebie to the workbook to

Jennifer Burke:

the workshop depending upon how deep into this you wanna dive to fix your

Jennifer Burke:

email gift and, do it as easily as you can so that you can start building your

Jennifer Burke:

community and figuring out almost as you go along where's the right fit, for you.

Melissa Brown:

And you said don't spend a lot of time getting it perfect.

Melissa Brown:

Well, because done is better than perfect.

Melissa Brown:

How many people have spun their wheels for weeks to months, to years and not

Melissa Brown:

gotten anything out there to start their email list, to start capturing

Melissa Brown:

the names and email addresses?

Jennifer Burke:

Absolutely.

Jennifer Burke:

I'm gonna bet that most of you, if you are out there and you're

Jennifer Burke:

coaching, you're consulting, you've worked with the clients one on one.

Jennifer Burke:

You have content.

Jennifer Burke:

You have a checklist or a tip sheet that you could easily put together of the

Jennifer Burke:

top seven questions that your type of client has before they hire you or this,

Jennifer Burke:

the top seven sleep tips for toddlers.

Jennifer Burke:

You've got experience from talking with people that you

Jennifer Burke:

can put together that freebie.

Jennifer Burke:

If you've been blogging for a while, well then great, you've got tips you

Jennifer Burke:

can pull from three related blogs that you could combine together into

Jennifer Burke:

a quick, short ebook that maybe you make it a video because again, hey, we

Jennifer Burke:

consume content in different methods.

Jennifer Burke:

The point is, you've got content sitting on your hard drive between

Jennifer Burke:

the emails maybe you've written one on one with clients, blog posts,

Jennifer Burke:

if you've purchased or licensed any content, you can create a freebie

Jennifer Burke:

and you can get it out there quickly.

Jennifer Burke:

There's other ones out there.

Jennifer Burke:

Quizzes.

Jennifer Burke:

Quizzes are still really popular.

Jennifer Burke:

I haven't delved into the quizzes as much as I'd like.

Jennifer Burke:

Why?

Jennifer Burke:

They're technically more challenging.

Melissa Brown:

It takes a lot more time.

Melissa Brown:

And unless you're willing if you've got the budget for it, you pay someone

Melissa Brown:

to help you actually do it for you.

Melissa Brown:

It's not inexpensive, but that's a really great way to get people onto an email list

Melissa Brown:

and segment them into different buckets.

Jennifer Burke:

Yes, it's a great way to take people who maybe already have

Jennifer Burke:

started to know you deeper into a relationship or a conversation with you.

Jennifer Burke:

I certainly don't with my clients who are newer with tech stumbles

Jennifer Burke:

who have great experience.

Jennifer Burke:

They've probably been a service provider.

Jennifer Burke:

They've possibly been working offline, and now they're trying to bring

Jennifer Burke:

their skills online as coaches and consultants and authors, and they

Jennifer Burke:

wanna create their first courses.

Jennifer Burke:

Make this easy for yourself.

Jennifer Burke:

Start getting your community out there to be set up for success.

Jennifer Burke:

Going after a quiz is not setting you up for easy, for success.

Jennifer Burke:

It's a great thing to do, but don't tell yourself that that's

Jennifer Burke:

the thing you have to do first.

Melissa Brown:

Put that one on the back burner.

Jennifer Burke:

Yeah.

Melissa Brown:

If at all.

Melissa Brown:

But get that checklist, a short ebook, some type of a worksheet.

Jennifer Burke:

Yes, absolutely.

Jennifer Burke:

If I to tell anybody right now, checklist, worksheets.

Jennifer Burke:

Maybe not even the ebook.

Jennifer Burke:

I'm not even sure if you wanna count the most recent thing I

Jennifer Burke:

created in Canva as an ebook.

Jennifer Burke:

It's six pages.

Jennifer Burke:

One of those is the About me page.

Jennifer Burke:

One is the cover.

Jennifer Burke:

One's the next steps, which leaves, the other three is being the actual tips.

Melissa Brown:

You don't even have to call it an ebook.

Melissa Brown:

It could just be oh, it's a pdf.

Jennifer Burke:

I think I called it a cheat sheet.

Melissa Brown:

OK.

Jennifer Burke:

Sheets.

Jennifer Burke:

But because the meat of it's on one page and hello tip-- that content for that came

Jennifer Burke:

from emails that I had sent, a video I did, which then turned into a blog post.

Melissa Brown:

Repurposing

Jennifer Burke:

You are the queen at that.

Jennifer Burke:

Yes.

Melissa Brown:

Yeah.

Melissa Brown:

Okay.

Melissa Brown:

So lead magnets.

Melissa Brown:

This is a great way to get people to sign up.

Melissa Brown:

You mentioned webinars.

Melissa Brown:

What other kinds of things can people think about to build their

Melissa Brown:

list, to build their community?

Jennifer Burke:

You're on social where sharing links is tough.

Jennifer Burke:

Create your own LinkedIn bio page.

Jennifer Burke:

Create a page on your website.

Jennifer Burke:

It's a landing page.

Jennifer Burke:

It's got your top content.

Jennifer Burke:

It's got an offer or a coupon, or it's got a great video for them.

Jennifer Burke:

And make sure you have that link so you can point to it to people.

Jennifer Burke:

If you're big and you're gonna insist on using and or it works for your audience,

Jennifer Burke:

for Instagram and reels and stories, then make sure that you can actually

Jennifer Burke:

drive people back to your website and you capture all that web traffic.

Jennifer Burke:

Sure, there's third party link bio tools.

Jennifer Burke:

So much better if you can just send the people directly to your

Jennifer Burke:

own website and your own traffic.

Jennifer Burke:

Social media still works for sharing those things.

Jennifer Burke:

I'd say honestly that, while there are quizzes and while there's webinars and

Jennifer Burke:

while there's videos, the other best way you create, that super focused

Jennifer Burke:

freebie, that checklist, that worksheet in terms of actually getting it out

Jennifer Burke:

there to grow your list, collaborations.

Jennifer Burke:

Collaborations and what I would jokingly call other people's audiences, are the

Jennifer Burke:

best and fastest way you're going to grow.

Jennifer Burke:

I did a workshop on this, a presentation for somebody else, and I had actually

Jennifer Burke:

calculated the numbers in my growth for my Marketing Mojo email community,

Jennifer Burke:

and it's a redonculous number.

Jennifer Burke:

It's like in the 90% range of people who have come to me have

Jennifer Burke:

come through some collaboration.

Jennifer Burke:

I can sit here and talk to you about popups and forms and all the sorts

Jennifer Burke:

of things you need to do on your website and you still need to have it.

Jennifer Burke:

And unless you are getting a bleeping ton of traffic, organic or otherwise

Jennifer Burke:

from Google, because you've got some massively greatly performing blog post

Jennifer Burke:

on your website, then the people who are finding you that way are going

Jennifer Burke:

to be coming at you slower than this.

Melissa Brown:

Yes.

Melissa Brown:

Collaborations.

Melissa Brown:

That's where it is because listen, you develop those relationships with other

Melissa Brown:

coaches, other solopreneurs, other groups and bundles and giveaways, being on

Melissa Brown:

other people's podcasts and offering.

Jennifer Burke:

Oh hey!.

Jennifer Burke:

I should probably be promoting a freebie on Melissa's podcast and I'm sure she'll

Jennifer Burke:

put it in the show notes, right, Melissa?

Melissa Brown:

Yes, of course.

Melissa Brown:

We're gonna talk about that in a minute.

Melissa Brown:

It is important to have that collaboration with other people.

Melissa Brown:

It's just a great way to get traffic to your opt-in.

Melissa Brown:

It's a great way to start developing those relationships so you can

Melissa Brown:

have those collaborations and maybe you're the one eventually who will

Melissa Brown:

be doing a collaboration and will want people to help promote your

Melissa Brown:

whatever it is you're promoting,

Jennifer Burke:

I'd say that it can also be super informal, cuz

Jennifer Burke:

this notion was intimidating and it can be if you're starting out.

Jennifer Burke:

It could start off as simple as what we call just a freebie swap.

Jennifer Burke:

Here's the key point for any of these collaborations: you wanna be

Jennifer Burke:

looking to work with people who have the similar type of ideal audience,

Jennifer Burke:

clients and customers, but they have different products or services than you.

Jennifer Burke:

Melissa and I both talk about content marketing, but we also

Jennifer Burke:

talk about it differently.

Jennifer Burke:

There are other people that I know that are big in video, and I touch a little

Jennifer Burke:

bit on video, but I'm not as big on video as Tanya Smith and Lou Bortone.

Jennifer Burke:

So they'd be great people to partner with because we're gonna have similar

Jennifer Burke:

audiences of entrepreneurs and online business owners, but we teach

Jennifer Burke:

and talk about different things.

Jennifer Burke:

It's why it might make sense for somebody else, for me to partner

Jennifer Burke:

with somebody who does web analytics.

Jennifer Burke:

There are some techy things I don't necessarily do.

Jennifer Burke:

I don't build websites anymore.

Jennifer Burke:

So somebody who handles that, great, I wanna partner up with you

Jennifer Burke:

because again, we have the same end audience, but we're not competing so

Jennifer Burke:

we could make a good collaboration.

Jennifer Burke:

Now, here's where it doesn't make sense.

Jennifer Burke:

I am not going to go be on a summit or join an event that is primarily for

Jennifer Burke:

people who do low content printables.

Jennifer Burke:

That might not be my people.

Jennifer Burke:

Or if everybody is a homeschooling mom.

Jennifer Burke:

It's not a fit.

Jennifer Burke:

But now you could do a swap if you know another coach or you are an accountant

Jennifer Burke:

and you partner with a coach, because maybe you've got the same audience.

Jennifer Burke:

You can say, Hey, I'm gonna talk about you and share your thing on my blog

Jennifer Burke:

or my podcast, or I'm gonna email my people and tell them about you.

Jennifer Burke:

And then two weeks later, they're gonna email and tell their people about you.

Jennifer Burke:

That's the most simplest form of collaboration beyond these organized,

Jennifer Burke:

I call them list building events.

Melissa Brown:

Right.

Melissa Brown:

Yeah, that's a really good point, because when we talked a minute

Melissa Brown:

ago about building a list that did not include the right people.

Jennifer Burke:

Yeah.

Melissa Brown:

That can happen if you're in an event and you're, let's

Melissa Brown:

say you're in a giveaway or a bundle and the target market is just, it's not

Melissa Brown:

a good fit, but you don't realize it.

Melissa Brown:

People will possibly still opt in for your free thing that you're giving away,

Melissa Brown:

but they're not ever gonna buy from you.

Melissa Brown:

They're not going to want your services because it's not the right fit.

Melissa Brown:

It's important to know who you're collaborating with and who their target

Melissa Brown:

market is for that particular event.

Jennifer Burke:

Absolutely.

Jennifer Burke:

It's one of the things that I grew the list and I grew it that way through

Jennifer Burke:

those types of events, and now I'm having to go back through and go.

Jennifer Burke:

Okay, all of you are on here through one form or another, probably

Jennifer Burke:

about email marketing and maybe a few other things, but you're not

Jennifer Burke:

necessarily engaging the way I thought.

Jennifer Burke:

And I've sent targeted and segmented emails, and now I'm gonna have to go

Jennifer Burke:

do the hard work of cleaning up and working on re-engagement of my list.

Jennifer Burke:

And it's probably gonna mean that yes, I'm going to purposefully wind up cutting my

Jennifer Burke:

list because in the end it's going to mean that more people actually see my message

Jennifer Burke:

and it gets delivered to the boxes of the people who actually wanna be with me.

Jennifer Burke:

And it means I have to be much more careful about whatever

Jennifer Burke:

collaborations and the partnerships that I'm in in the future.

Jennifer Burke:

And what do I do to engage with those people after they first found me?

Jennifer Burke:

Don't welcome people to your community and then leave them

Jennifer Burke:

sitting in your living room for days on end without welcoming them.

Jennifer Burke:

At the same time, if you've invited them and everybody's come from the same

Jennifer Burke:

party, now back to your house, they might be a little overwhelmed and maybe you

Jennifer Burke:

need to give them at least a little bit of time to cool and chill down before

Jennifer Burke:

you hit them with some more emails.

Jennifer Burke:

Have a plan.

Jennifer Burke:

And even if the plan is, Hey, I'm gonna check back with you next week.

Jennifer Burke:

Okay, cool, thanks.

Jennifer Burke:

Here, go watch this video in the meantime.

Jennifer Burke:

Cool.

Jennifer Burke:

Have a plan.

Melissa Brown:

Yeah, yeah.

Melissa Brown:

Right.

Melissa Brown:

Have a plan and when you talked about cleaning up the list or making sure

Melissa Brown:

that the people on your list want to remain on your list, unsubscribes

Melissa Brown:

does not have to be a bad word, because sometimes we do it ourselves.

Melissa Brown:

We unsubscribe people from our list because A, they're not engaging.

Melissa Brown:

They're not opening the emails.

Melissa Brown:

Sometimes it's harder to find out that they're actually opening

Melissa Brown:

the emails or not nowadays.

Jennifer Burke:

That's a separate conversation.

Melissa Brown:

Unsubscribes is not a bad word because let's talk about it from

Melissa Brown:

a standpoint of there are people who don't want to email their list because

Melissa Brown:

they're afraid someone will unsubscribe.

Jennifer Burke:

Goody.

Jennifer Burke:

It's okay.

Jennifer Burke:

Bless them and release them somebody once told me.

Jennifer Burke:

Thank you for telling me that we are not the right fit.

Jennifer Burke:

That makes it more likely that somebody who is the right fit

Jennifer Burke:

for me is now gonna get my email.

Jennifer Burke:

And I admit, I had to talk my way through that.

Jennifer Burke:

Good news folks, as you finally start to build a bigger email community and you

Jennifer Burke:

don't know by name, face and sight, every single person on your list, Somebody left.

Jennifer Burke:

Okay.

Jennifer Burke:

It only starts to get to you and you're like, Aw, but that

Jennifer Burke:

person's been on my list for years.

Melissa Brown:

But they come back back.

Melissa Brown:

That's the cool thing.

Melissa Brown:

They come back.

Melissa Brown:

I have done it.

Melissa Brown:

I may get on a tear where I'm unsubscribing from this one,

Melissa Brown:

that one, this one, that one.

Melissa Brown:

Not because I'm mad at them, but because I got so much email that I

Melissa Brown:

got overwhelmed and I unsubscribe, but then I subscribe again.

Jennifer Burke:

It's not personal.

Jennifer Burke:

It is not personal.

Jennifer Burke:

And it is the best thing that can actually happen for your email community

Jennifer Burke:

because it means the people that are left are gonna engage with you

Jennifer Burke:

and they are more likely to actually become your customers, your buyers.

Jennifer Burke:

You want to segment.

Jennifer Burke:

I'll also say, for example, mismatches.

Jennifer Burke:

Before I ever participated as someone who was building my own

Jennifer Burke:

email community through events, Lord knows, I was a consumer of them.

Jennifer Burke:

And I opted in for all kinds of things.

Jennifer Burke:

And a lot of it was because at my heart, research is my middle name.

Jennifer Burke:

That's the trained librarian in me as well as the trained marketer in me.

Jennifer Burke:

And I'm like, cool, what are they doing?

Jennifer Burke:

How are they doing it?

Jennifer Burke:

How do they set it up?

Jennifer Burke:

And I remember one time I'm like, cool, this person's freebie

Jennifer Burke:

is all about email marketing.

Jennifer Burke:

I wanna see what they're doing.

Jennifer Burke:

I wanna see how they're doing it.

Jennifer Burke:

And then I get it.

Jennifer Burke:

And then all of their emails afterward were about religious faith

Jennifer Burke:

plr and their journey to something.

Jennifer Burke:

Wait, how did I get on this list?

Jennifer Burke:

Who is this person?

Jennifer Burke:

So I went back and I found the email.

Jennifer Burke:

I joined this list because this person was promoting an email marketing guide.

Jennifer Burke:

Why did they do that?

Jennifer Burke:

If that isn't what they actually talk about and or why wasn't the guide

Jennifer Burke:

maybe tailored to say, hi, this is how you can do email marketing as

Jennifer Burke:

a faith-based entrepreneur and talk about your faith in your emails.

Jennifer Burke:

That might have even made sense in which case I wouldn't

Jennifer Burke:

have opted in cuz it isn't me.

Jennifer Burke:

But somebody else would've been like, that's me.

Jennifer Burke:

I didn't hit spam because I'd opted in.

Jennifer Burke:

But yeah, I unsubbed pretty fast cause this is a total mismatch.

Jennifer Burke:

Something's gone wrong here?

Jennifer Burke:

I don't know why you did what you did, but it's not working for either of us.

Jennifer Burke:

I'm sure everybody listening has had that instance.

Jennifer Burke:

Or worse, somebody ghosted you.

Jennifer Burke:

You pick up their freebie and then you heard nothing.

Jennifer Burke:

And then, it feels like for me it's three months later and maybe

Jennifer Burke:

it was only four weeks, but, and then I get an email from them.

Jennifer Burke:

I'm like, who the bleep is this?

Melissa Brown:

Well, sometimes it's six months or a year later.

Melissa Brown:

Oh, and you think, I don't think I ever opted into this person's list.

Melissa Brown:

And then you go to unsubscribe and it shows you where you actually had

Melissa Brown:

subscribed, but you had not heard from that person for that long.

Melissa Brown:

Which speaks to another reason to keep talking to people, sending an email.

Melissa Brown:

You're probably not gonna say, oh, you have to email once a week.

Melissa Brown:

It depends what is the sweet spot of how often you should be emailing.

Jennifer Burke:

It depends with a caveat.

Jennifer Burke:

It does.

Jennifer Burke:

So if you email, I'm gonna go ahead and call it, infrequently, if you email

Jennifer Burke:

once a month, or you email once every six or eight weeks, a lot of other

Jennifer Burke:

things can come into somebody's inbox.

Jennifer Burke:

The content they consume, the tv they see.

Jennifer Burke:

Our brains get overloaded in that amount of time, and it becomes really

Jennifer Burke:

easy for them to forget who you are, especially if it's not somebody that

Jennifer Burke:

they've met you at a real meeting or a conference, or that they've been on a

Jennifer Burke:

call with you or in a group with you.

Jennifer Burke:

It's harder to build a relationship if you're long distance dating and

Jennifer Burke:

very long distance and than very far apart with the communications.

Jennifer Burke:

That said, it doesn't have to be this massive email very frequently.

Jennifer Burke:

I'm never gonna be a okay, somebody told me once I should never say never.

Jennifer Burke:

James Bond said, never say never that I don't email daily.

Jennifer Burke:

That said, I went from once long time ago, being a once a month, here's my

Jennifer Burke:

newsletter and it's all officially, and it was a different business then,

Jennifer Burke:

and I thought I had to do that too.

Jennifer Burke:

Well, but if I have something to say in the meantime, can I send another email?

Jennifer Burke:

Yes.

Jennifer Burke:

You can send shorter ones.

Jennifer Burke:

I made the conscious decision to make myself more consistent

Jennifer Burke:

when I moved to Active Campaign.

Jennifer Burke:

We're gonna go to twice a month and the goal is before three months

Jennifer Burke:

are out, I'm gonna get to once a week and it's gonna be Thursdays.

Jennifer Burke:

And there was no rhyme or reason.

Jennifer Burke:

It doesn't matter necessarily what day of the week, if you're

Jennifer Burke:

consistent and your people know.

Jennifer Burke:

I know Melissa's gonna show up in my inbox on Mondays.

Jennifer Burke:

Melissa knows I'm gonna show up in her inbox on Thursdays and at the same time,

Jennifer Burke:

because I do email every Thursday, I've also bought myself leeway, which means

Jennifer Burke:

that when I forget, or life gets in the way, or I have a medical emergency

Jennifer Burke:

and I need surgery and you don't get an email from me this Thursday, it's

Jennifer Burke:

not the same as if I ghosted you for some long period of time, you're

Jennifer Burke:

like, oh, there's Jennifer back again in my email box, and you're like, I

Jennifer Burke:

think it happened twice this summer.

Jennifer Burke:

And I'm like, you all didn't miss me, did you?

Jennifer Burke:

Cause you didn't, that was the week, that was a blip of time

Jennifer Burke:

in your lives you didn't notice.

Melissa Brown:

That's really good because if you're in people's inbox

Melissa Brown:

once a week consistently, and then like what happened to you with an

Melissa Brown:

accident and in surgery and you don't get that email sent, but then you come

Melissa Brown:

back and you say, did you miss me?

Melissa Brown:

And you're like, wait.

Melissa Brown:

It's like a blip of time.

Melissa Brown:

You weren't there that last week and then you go looking back

Melissa Brown:

and you're like, oh my goodness.

Melissa Brown:

No!.

Melissa Brown:

Where was she?

Jennifer Burke:

Where was she?

Jennifer Burke:

I've coached people through things of like, okay, if it really has been a

Jennifer Burke:

long time, yes, there are certain things you can do to rewarm up, re-engage.

Melissa Brown:

But don't let that happen in the first place.

Jennifer Burke:

Don't let it up in the first place.

Jennifer Burke:

You don't need this long explanation of your entire life history of what happened.

Jennifer Burke:

You just need to say, oops, life happened.

Jennifer Burke:

Here's my plan going forward.

Jennifer Burke:

Commit to something you can keep up with.

Jennifer Burke:

I've talked with a client in my group, and I'm like, look, don't say

Jennifer Burke:

I'm gonna be back in your email box every week if you know you can't do

Jennifer Burke:

it because of the rest of what's going on in your business and your life.

Melissa Brown:

Do what makes sense for you.

Jennifer Burke:

That's said, I will share wisdom from someone who's been both of

Jennifer Burke:

our coaches, that if you email more often, you have more opportunities to develop

Jennifer Burke:

the relationship and more opportunities to actually make offers and for more

Jennifer Burke:

people to see that offer because so much else is happening in their lives and we

Jennifer Burke:

are not the only thing in their inboxes.

Jennifer Burke:

We are potentially competing with every other list they're on, and Warby Parker

Jennifer Burke:

and Wayfair and the pizza place and omg.

Jennifer Burke:

If you show up a little bit more often, you can remind them of that offer.

Jennifer Burke:

If you only email twice a month and you're gonna use one of your precious two

Jennifer Burke:

emails a month on a promotion and somebody doesn't see that email for your course,

Jennifer Burke:

Sad trombone and sad face.

Jennifer Burke:

If you email at least once a week and then you throw in a dedicated promotional

Jennifer Burke:

email and then you mention the course at least two more times, you are more likely

Jennifer Burke:

to have gotten your offer in front of the people who need it right now, because

Jennifer Burke:

you are in their boxes more frequently.

Melissa Brown:

I have a sticky note and I know what you think about sticky

Melissa Brown:

notes, but I have a sticky note that's sitting here right in front of me.

Melissa Brown:

It says, if it's worth promoting once it's worth promoting four times.

Jennifer Burke:

Oh, I was gonna say three.

Jennifer Burke:

We're up to four.

Jennifer Burke:

Okay.

Melissa Brown:

Yeah.

Melissa Brown:

Four times.

Melissa Brown:

You're right.

Melissa Brown:

People don't always see each email and if it's worth promoting once,

Melissa Brown:

it's worth promoting four times.

Melissa Brown:

Okay, well, Jennifer, I could just borrow your brain all day long.

Jennifer Burke:

We're not going to, because everybody else, they need

Jennifer Burke:

to actually go out and they need to create their freebie and they need to

Jennifer Burke:

go out and write a couple of welcome emails to nurture their community.

Jennifer Burke:

And then they need to go out and make a plan for, Hey, how you

Jennifer Burke:

gonna send two emails this month?

Jennifer Burke:

Come on folks.

Jennifer Burke:

That's all I'm asking for you for right now.

Jennifer Burke:

Start off with two emails a month and then we can work up, and then

Jennifer Burke:

you're gonna be set up for success.

Melissa Brown:

And I know that you had something that you

Melissa Brown:

wanted to give away today.

Jennifer Burke:

Well, I do.

Jennifer Burke:

I was gonna say, I can give away my email setup guide that goes through all

Jennifer Burke:

the 12 steps that goes into more detail.

Jennifer Burke:

It's got my rundown of the top email marketing software and links.

Jennifer Burke:

It gives tips on practicing writing your emails and writing subject lines.

Jennifer Burke:

And I will also say, it's a bit on the long side for an ebook.

Jennifer Burke:

I have shorter, faster freebies.

Jennifer Burke:

If you want that, I'll send you the Fix Your Freebie Fast guide too.

Jennifer Burke:

I'm going to give Melissa the link that you could put in the show notes,

Jennifer Burke:

the mightymarketingmojo.com/email - setup - guide.

Jennifer Burke:

But definitely there will be a link that'll be a whole lot easier to click.

Jennifer Burke:

If you wanna join my email community and hear me talk about all of this and model

Jennifer Burke:

it, and I tell stories and I let you know what's going on in my life in my emails.

Jennifer Burke:

Melissa is fantastic about that as well.

Jennifer Burke:

She's one of my role models for integrating life and

Jennifer Burke:

storytelling into her emails.

Melissa Brown:

Oh, thank you.

Jennifer Burke:

You're welcome.

Melissa Brown:

All right.

Melissa Brown:

That's awesome.

Melissa Brown:

So, all those links will be in the show notes so go on over there to Mighty

Melissa Brown:

Marketing Mojo and check that out.

Melissa Brown:

Thanks so much, Jennifer.

Jennifer Burke:

Thank you, Melissa,

Melissa Brown:

and all you content creators.

Melissa Brown:

You get out there and start creating some content and grow your list.

Melissa Brown:

Jennifer has just spilled all the beans here for making a

Melissa Brown:

successful email community.

Melissa Brown:

So I wanna see all of those emails going out over the next few weeks and months.

Melissa Brown:

Thanks so much, and we'll be back here next week.

Melissa Brown:

Thank you for tuning into this episode of the She's Got Content podcast.

Melissa Brown:

I hope you got at least one nugget to take action on this week.

Melissa Brown:

If you got value from today's episode, I would be so grateful

Melissa Brown:

when you leave a five star rating wherever you listen to podcasts.

Melissa Brown:

It only takes a second and it really helps me get my message out

Melissa Brown:

to impact even more people so they can in turn, keep the ripple going.

Melissa Brown:

If you're listening on Apple Podcast and leave a review of the show, it

Melissa Brown:

would really make my day, and you just might receive a shout out on

Melissa Brown:

the show as my content creator of the week when I read out your review.

Melissa Brown:

And last but never least, if you want an endless supply of just right ideas

Melissa Brown:

for content you can write about for your blog posts, your emails, your videos,

Melissa Brown:

podcast episodes, all the content things, then you wanna head over to my

Melissa Brown:

website at shesgotcontent.com/content and pick up your free workbook,

Melissa Brown:

Never Run Out of Content Ideas.

Melissa Brown:

Look for that link in the show notes today along with the other

Melissa Brown:

links mentioned in today's episode.

Melissa Brown:

Until next time, Content Creators, you've got an audience waiting to hear from you

Melissa Brown:

and you've got content to share with them.

Melissa Brown:

Stop being the best kept secret and make a bigger impact when you've

This blog post may contain recommendations for products, services, and events. In some cases, the links provided are affiliate links. That means that if you click on the link and then buy a product at the site recommended, you won't pay a penny more and the author may earn compensation as a thank you. You can be assured that any of the promoted products have personally been used by or researched by the author for you and found to be high quality before being recommended. 

Melissa Brown, MD

About the author

Dr. Melissa Brown's career journey has always had an element of teaching. After retirement from clinical pediatric practice, Dr. Brown has taught and mentored as a healthy lifestyle coach, author, and speaker. She currently teaches solopreneurs and coaches how to stop being the world's best-kept secret. Her mission is to help you: Create great content. Impact people. Change the world.

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